Think Tank: Upgrade Ideas
Have a great idea on how Fantasy Master Online could be improved? Chances are you do, and we haven't thought of it yet. Post it in here and discuss it with your fellow members. Once an idea has been fleshed out, if enough people like it, we'll consider adding it to the site.
|
Help keep this forum free. Visit a sponsor.
|
Nicholas
Paladin
1033 posts
Jan 30, 2004
5:54 PM
|
|
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Luap writes:
hehe, one of these days in the near future or so I'll learn how to post a short, to the point, concise, noncircumlocutory, message free of extraneous and unnecessary words or phrases.
*rolls eyes at his own bad joke*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't think your post was that bad...thought a paragraph or two would have helped. ;)
You had some really great ideas in there though, and I think it would go a long way toward stabilizing the system. I'm working the equations in my head right now. I'll probably try posting again tonight with what I come up with and maybe we can hammer it out a little more from there.
Nicholas Bostaph
Fantasy Master Online Developer
|
Luap
Knight
336 posts
Feb 5, 2004
8:44 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
just wondering, anything new in the development of the stock market? Its caught my interest and I was just wondering if it was put on hold while other features are implemented or if we can expect anything at all on it in the demi-near future
There's nothing 25 skill points of fire magic and a fire pillar spell can't fix.
|
Nicholas
Paladin
1033 posts
Feb 5, 2004
8:57 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
Actually, it's on hold while we wait for some more forum members to put their ideas down. We've identified a lot of potential problems, and I'm waiting until we can come up with some solutions before trying to go ahead with this. I, admittedly, haven't thought much about it lately though, as other features have monopolized my time. Anyone else have some ideas?
Nicholas Bostaph
Fantasy Master Online Developer
|
Luap
Knight
336 posts
May 12, 2004
2:08 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
Alright, there's been no conversation on this topic for a while, so I decided to create a possible formula for the stockmarket. Maybe this can start some conversation going. Look at the formula and at the concepts discussed in this thread, and see if you see any ways to improve it. Its a pretty simple formula so there should probably be ways to improve it. But without further ado, here's my suggestion for the stock market simulator.
Total Market Value= 50 x (Number of games)
Base Value of Individual Game= (total games played) x (Total Market Value) / (times that game was played)
This means that if every game is played the same, Each stock will have a value of 50. As more games are added, the Total Market Value increases but as long as these new games are played the stocks shouldn't grow disproportionately
Market Percent = (# of stocks owned in this game)/(Total # of Stocks owned)
deviation = (Market Percent)-[1/(number of games)]
if deviation is less than -.5 then deviation = -.5
if deviation is greater than .8 then deviation = .8
The deviation is used to find games that a real lot of people own stocks in. The idea is that something really obvious has happened to this game that is going to send its stock price up. That's why everyone owns this stock, because its a really good one. Deviation is used to slow down the rate at which stock prices go up. If everyone owns a stock, it'll rise really slowly
The value of the stock will be recalculated at some interval. At one end of the spectrum would be daily. At the other end would be continuously. I didn't presume to set an interval for recalculation because I don't know what sort of server load this will be. I'm sure Nicholas could figure out a good starting interval, and it could always be changed as we go along if that interval isn't working out
absolute value of [(Actual Value of Stock yesterday) - (Base Value of Stock today)] = Change
if (Actual Value of Stock yesterday) - (Base Value of Stock today) is less than 0, direction = down
if (Actual Value of Stock yesterday) - (Base Value of Stock today) is greater than 0, direction = up
if change is greater than 50, change= 50
102 * Change - (Change squared)] = growth
(growth / 100)*(1-deviation) = daily change
if daily change - Change [ 0 then daily change = Change
Daily change / intervals of recalculation = Recalc Change
Every recalculation:
if direction = down, Actual Value = Actual Value - Recalc Change
if direction = up, Actual Value = Actual Value + Recalc Change
The system uses diminishing returns. If the base value changes 1, then actual value (ignoring deviation) will change 1. If the base value changes by 25, the actual value will change by 19. If the base value changes by 50 or more, the actual value changes by 26. Deviation reduces the change. The daily change is split up into a number of smaller changes that are added every recalculation period. Of course, as the values fluctuate through the day so do the recalc changes.
Stock is bought in clumps. Every week 5% of the original size of the clump is bought back at the current price at that point +1. Alternatively, it could be (5/7)% of the original size daily. If part of a clump is sold by the player, the original clump size could be reduced proportionaly. This means that in 20 weeks, the players stock is all gone. However, at all times they are getting +1 of the current price. If the stock remains constant, that means they made 1 gp per stock. Why did I include this? This creates some risk to stocks. In Neopets you can hold stocks till they go up. There's no risk other than the occasional crash. Games really can't crash in FMO. Therefore, this creates some risk. If you buy stock at 50 and it goes down to 20 and stays there, you'll lose money. The explanation for this in game? The game company wants to pay off the investments in it as soon as possible so they can make the money themselves.
That might be a little confusing in some places. Its hard to type complex formulas into a simple text box like this. I tried to make it as clear as possible though. If you've got any questions, just ask. So, what's everyone think? Anyone been inspired to think of how to make an awesome stock market? Anyone see any potential problems or mistakes? Any further suggestions?
*edit- the forum turned my less then and greater than signs into brackets, so I fixed it with text. Also, I wrote "base value of stock yesterday" a couple times when I should've written "actual value of stock yesterday"
There's nothing 25 skill points of fire magic and a fire pillar spell can't fix.
|
Nicholas
Paladin
1033 posts
May 13, 2004
1:11 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
Luap,
Ouch...you're making my brain hurt ;). Seriously, though, I'm impressed. Everything sounds really good. However, I will have to take some time and look through the formulas a little better. I'll do that when I have some time to start coding this.
Initially, once it's all built, it will be setup to only be accessible by a few beta testers. We can tweak the formulas and see their effects in real time. I'm thinking an update every 15 or 30 minutes (depending on required processing time) would be best, with maybe 1% of the shares bought back each night (I like that idea, BTW).
Any other thoughts/ideas/suggestions on this whole thing are welcome.
Nicholas Bostaph
Fantasy Master Online Developer
|
KingSlick
Ghost
196 posts
May 13, 2004
4:08 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
Another Idea for the stock markets, having the players create their own companies (ie. bars, food stores, farms, and then suppliers, and all at a cost: rent, employees, taxes). With those companies they would then need suppliers and demanders. Then the cycle would just go in circles. One example, I own a bar. I sell to people of veild. But I need supplies. Food, ale, furniture (I have to keep purchasing new ones b/c of the bar fights). Then, lets say marvinko (just as an example) has a farm/ butcher that produces food. I would purchase the food from him and he would need to have employees (the people) to produce the food, who he would have to pay. Those employees could then come to my bar to eat and drink.
The stock markets could be based on wheter or not profits are being made. Although, you would use some sort of AI for the people, the prices for the goods and services would be set by us the company owners.
This way we could also have the ability to make more money quicker than now, espically with the castles at 10M gp.
The Good shall rise!!!
|
Irongrinder
Knight
423 posts
May 13, 2004
4:47 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
IEDIT: King, castles are now available at 3,5 million, the 10 million is the old amount
|
KingSlick
Ghost
196 posts
May 14, 2004
5:38 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
The Good shall rise!!!
|
Luap
Knight
336 posts
May 16, 2004
12:49 AM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
KingSlick, it certainly would be potentially cool to be able to run businesses. On an online game like this I'd definately agree with the maxim "more is better". However, I'm thinking that the sort of idea you're suggesting might be a little too complex right now. I can't even fully visualize how you'd pull it off, and there's usually another big gap between visualization and actualization. Maybe someone else can figure it out, and if so then it'd be cool. But I'm going to guess that any business simulation accomplished right now would have almost none of the features you suggested. But perhaps you've got a better idea of what you mean then I do, and so I'll try to be constructive and pose some questions for you. If you can come up with answers to them, post them here and perhaps from them we could build some sort of working system. If you can't then that's ok, its probably just too weighty an idea for right now. Lots of ideas are cool but impractible. Anyways, here are some questions to help us see if we can design your idea.
How would it tie into the stockmarket? The current plan is based on how many times a game is played in a day compared to the whole of all games played in a day. How would you factor in a company that isn't played? Is a game played 45 times in a day worth more or less than a company that makes 200 gp profit? Or would you pull the two apart and have two stockmarkets? Or would you totally replace the stock market with this system?
You basically suggested an entirely simulated economy. Workers get money they spend on other businesses which then gets spent on resources to make more money which results in hiring more workers. How exactly would a system like this work? How would workers decide where to spend their money and how much of their money to spend? Would they always go to the cheapest inn creating a price war that would kill all the businesses but one, or would their be a more complex formula? What sort of things would the formula factor in? How would they decide what to spend their money on? If there's 10,000 gp worth of money in workers pockets, how much would be spent on inns, how much on weaponry, how much on food, how much on toys, how much on magical trinkets? Would the money be automatically divided between the possibilities in even amounts, or would more money be spent on inns if the inns were a really good deal at that point? How would you compare how good a deal is between totally unlike stores, such as a trinket store and a pub?
Unless regulated by an outside source, it seems that multi-step processes tend to be monopolized into one company. Let's say for a simple relationship, a bakery needs to buy wheat from a farm to sell bread for money. At first there are lots of bakeries and lots of wheat fields. the wheat fields all sell to different bakeries and the bakeries all sell to different customers. Over time some bakeries do really well and get really rich. They buy their own personal wheat fields. This means they have less expenses and can sell their bread for cheaper. The other bakeries go out of business. The other wheat fields go out of business because the big bakeries don't buy from them. Suddenly the only way to compete is to own a bakery and a wheat field. However a new company can't buy both unless it starts out very rich. Its a Catch 22, you need money to make money. How would you stop this from happening?
How would the monetary gains be divided between share holders and the store owners? How about financial risks? What sort of incentives would their be to start a store? What sort of risks would be involved?
What would the mechanics of the game be? You mentioned that you'd buy resources and set prices, but how exactly would all this work? Would resources be of all the same quality or would you need to figure out which quality is most profitable? How would the resource makers decide quality? What sort of stores could you have? Would there be an ideal value for all settings? If the player figures that out, will they just be rolling in cash?
That should be a good start. If you have answers to all those maybe a system can be developed. If it was just an idea and you can't figure out those answers maybe it won't work out after all. I noticed that you hadn't really gotten any responses to your idea so I'm guessing no one else sees a way to implement it. Or maybe after these questions someone will. Anyways, I know this was a long post just to ask a few questions, but I think it'll help divine the possibility of your idea. Maybe it'll get the ball rolling and we'll wind up with a system. Maybe it won't and we'll know we probably aren't going to wind up with a system. *shrug* hope these questions help you solidify the idea into something more usable It is a cool idea
There's nothing 25 skill points of fire magic and a fire pillar spell can't fix.
|
Nicholas
Paladin
1033 posts
May 16, 2004
11:54 AM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
I imagine it would be completely separate from the stock market. Complex formulas could be put in place to regulate worker spending. A minimum wage could be set. Increased pay over this amount could attract more workers (if your business is lacking) and could increase productivity. Using a simple formula to multiply pay by workers for each business will give the average amount the workers have to spend (perhaps even break them into low/middle/wealthy class).
A variable percentage of workers would need to stay at inns, so X gold would automatically get spent at inns. I imagine how many stay where will be affected by number of inns available, pricing of inn, quality of service (inn worker pay), promotion, etc. This would insure that there is a reasonable distribution among all the competing businesses. Other industries could be broken down similarly.
You could limit monopolies and oligopolies in one of two ways. One, you could say that each account could only own one business, preventing players from being able to form a monopoly on their own. Two, you could refuse limitations between sellers and buyers. For instance, you can own a wheat field, but if you want to sell to yourself for X gold, another buyer has the right to swoop in and buy from you for X gold as well...perhaps even bleeding your farm dry, so your own bakery must buy elsewhere.
Just some thoughts...
Nicholas Bostaph
Fantasy Master Online Developer
|
KingSlick
Ghost
196 posts
May 18, 2004
1:16 PM
|
Re: Stock Market
|
Then about the Rich getting richer, some one could start a bank to make loans only to the players, not the AI people.
The Good shall rise!!!
|
|
Previous Page
|
1
|
2
|
3
| Next Page
|
|