Think Tank: Upgrade Ideas
Have a great idea on how Fantasy Master Online could be improved? Chances are you do, and we haven't thought of it yet. Post it in here and discuss it with your fellow members. Once an idea has been fleshed out, if enough people like it, we'll consider adding it to the site.
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Nicholas
Paladin
1029 posts
Jun 13, 2004
2:43 PM
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 Sailing anyone?
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We have a new idea planned for the coming months. Any suggestions or comments on it are welcome. Read the project thread at http://freeforums.net/forum_thread.cfm?FORUM_ID=2750&board_ID=9187&thread_ID=48812 .
Nicholas Bostaph
Fantasy Master Online Developer
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Luap
Knight
331 posts
Jun 13, 2004
9:30 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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Reading the original news announcement actually excited me. This is by far the feature I'm most anticipating in FMO. Castles was exciting, but it seemed like there were other games out on the internet with similar features. Those games aren't rpgs and don't have as much as FMO does, which is why the FMO castle system is more impressive, but the castles didn't feel like anything new. Combat is very cool, but that was in place when I joined, so it was nothing to anticipate. This shipping idea feels like a totally new direction for online games. Not that there aren't trading games out there, but I've never really felt that any of them used the full potential of what they were working with.
I know you had mentioned in the castle project thread that the castles are going to produce trade goods. If that's still so, I think it'd be very cool to base the port's goods on the nearby castles. If Castle A is producing paper and Castle B isn't, then the port near castle A will have a low demand and Castle B will have a high demand. Perhaps the owner of the paper producing land in Castle A will put the paper up for sale at the port. In that case player fleets will be able to purchase paper at that port. It could be extrapolated alot farther too. What do you think? Do you like the idea of tying castles and fleets together or do you want to keep them as separate systems? Or more importantly I suppose, is it even feasible under the current shipping and castle systems? Personally, I think that integrating all the different systems would be very cool, but that's just me.
I also think hiring crews is a very neat feature. I don't know if you were already planning this, but if not I'd suggest that besides costing different amounts and being differently skilled at battle, different crew members would be good at different things. In the example on the project thread you said a player could have a small crew of very high level warriors or a large crew of normal folks and a few moderate warriors. Perhaps the player could also have a crew of expert sailors, which would let them get to their destination faster and maneuver better in combat. Maybe the player would hire a merchant or two to try to get better deals at the destination. A merchant vessel might want to have alot of warriors to protect its cargo, or it might want to have alot of sailors to try to outrun attackers. Pirates might want to hire expert canoneers and disable ships with minimal personal damage, or hire expert warriors and take ships with more risk to themselves, but less of a chance of accidently sinking their prize. And perhaps the crew could get better over time just like real players do. Some would grow in level really fast and others would be slow learners. The player would have to decide whether they want to pay the big bucks for the established professional captain, or hire a less reknowned captain and hope that he's a fast learner and will be a great asset a few months down the road. Just some thoughts 
There's nothing 25 skill points of fire magic and a fire pillar spell can't fix.
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Nicholas
Paladin
1029 posts
Jun 13, 2004
10:45 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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Well, I like your ideas about crews. Unfortunately, I'm treading a really thin line here already. The idea of crews being anything more than a number was more of an afterthought (albeit a cool one). I'm going to have to store very very little information about each member of the crew or the databases will never hold out.
Fortunately, I've got you covered ;). The number of ships you can have will be limited by captains. Each ship captain will have a number of skills, including sailing, maneuvering, leadership (for crew battles), and cannoneering (unless we decide to do catapults/ballistae and avoid the "gunpowder paradox" which I'm sure someone will bring up). They will not get experience and will not gain levels. Instead, they will become better at whatever they do by doing it. Every time they fire a shot, they get a little better at cannoneering. Every time they move in battle, they get a little better maneuvering. As they sail further and further they get faster and faster, and their ability to work trades deals will improve as well. How's that; Sound like a good compromise?
Nicholas Bostaph
Fantasy Master Online Developer
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Luap
Knight
331 posts
Jun 13, 2004
11:35 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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That sounds like a great compromise. I was getting a little excited and was focusing more on coolness than practibility. Many variables for every crew member would get a bit outrageous I imagine. I suppose you could have a single variable to hold what sort of thing the crew person excels at, but I imagine that'd require so much sorting and switches that instead of breaking the database you'd break the processing part of the server. Or else you'd have to be retranslating multiple characters into single variables which this whole idea was trying to avoid in the first place. So yeah, good compromise.
As for cannons versus catapults, my vote goes to cannons. It takes a bit more explaining than just using catapults, but I think cannons would be far more exciting of a weapon for ship to ship combat. I can't imagine a ship would be able to carry all that many rocks big enough to sink enemy ships. Plus its alot harder to throw an object into the air and have it land on a moving target then it is to shoot an object straight at that moving target. You can still overshoot a target with a cannon, especially at longer ranges, but its a bit more likely with a catapult.
Are really powerful pirate fleets going to be able to raid ports and steal goods and gold?
There's nothing 25 skill points of fire magic and a fire pillar spell can't fix.
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KingSlick
Ghost
196 posts
Jun 13, 2004
11:41 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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What about creating random AI pirates too (if possible), Where even at the begining, you would need to have some kind of protection for your ships.
The Good shall rise!!!
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Vostok
Guardian
562 posts
Jun 14, 2004
2:41 AM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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Sea Patrolling Privateers !!!!
and even more choices for hard to earn fairies. 
Also a use for all the daggers 
Questions:
How will alignment work ? I have one character who can't be a pirate and one who can't be a privateer.
Will it be possible to have multiple fleets ? I'd like to have my own merchant fleet to command and at the same time provide a mercenary fleet to assist others.
And have a couple pirates 
Ideas :
You could just call it "ranged combat" and not have to deal with the specifics at all.
An idea I just had : instead of gunpowder weapons ships could be equipped with area weapons ! Poison flasks to not damage the ship and fire flasks for when you want to win more than you want a prize ship. Or ship specific flasks ...
Sea Monsters !
It could be like patrolling for Lord Nicholas, only it requires a ship. It would give players another option for using a boat, and one that doesn't require interplayer conflict.
YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME.
"I know this wasn't your idea as it doesn't involve chaining two doctors together and wielding them at me until I'm cured" http://www.nuklearpower.com
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Jamuka Paliuka
Apparition
40 posts
Jun 15, 2004
4:37 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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I am really against the cannon idea. So far, FMO is a purely fantasy environment. Once you add cannons, you are opening yourself up for all sorts of new technology. I have seen to many games ruined by the addition of gunpowder so I very much am against it.
Other than catapults/ballista, how about being able to hire a mage into your crew (as an item) who can cast spells at opposing ships. Sometimes a fireball does more damage than a cannon ball.
Or grappling hooks in order to grapple the other ship and then board.
Just my two cents as I love this game and would hate to see it ruined by adding gunpowder. I just wish I had more time to play
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Irongrinder
Knight
423 posts
Jun 15, 2004
5:18 PM
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You've read too much Drizzt stories Jamuka ;)
But I agree, a mage would be better. Also abilities of the mages could be a good thing. As with xp, the more they fight the stronger they get, so the stronger fireballs they can use and maybe also shields.
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Luap
Knight
331 posts
Jun 15, 2004
10:33 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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FMO is certainly a classical fantasy environment. That generally means it is set in a roughly medieval time with the inclusion of fantastic beings and powers. You can divide history up in different ways, but 500-1500 isn't a bad timeline for the Middle Ages. Greek Fire, an extremely effective napalm like substance was used in the mid 600's. The weapon was extremely effective at sinking ships and perhaps more importantly it was extremely effective psycologicaly. By the early to mid 700's the recipe had been forgotten as it had been kept such a secret. By the 900's gunpowder had been discoverd in China. The history of the cannon is an uncertain one, but it probably was developed in southern Europe slightly before 1300, placing it well within the middle ages.
My point in all that is that cannons wouldn't be that out of place chronologically in FMO. Its kind of hard to guess what sort of part of the medieval age FMO would be equivalant to, and rather moot since Veild and Earth are totally different planets, but regardless the existance of cannons is defendable.
I too have played games that were ruined by the inclusion of gunpowder, but those games generally did not treat gunpowder in a historical way. A crossbow was many times more effective than any sort of gun through much of history. Even a regular bow, for a variety of reasons was a better choice. However, for blowing holes in the side of a boat you do need a cannon rather than a crossbow, which is part of the reason why cannon's were used more extensively earlier than guns. A good example of the relative status of guns in earlier times is to look at the three muskateers. In the novel they were, if I'm not mistaken, some of France's finest muskateers. And what are they known for fighting with? Swords. That was 1625 I believe too, so that's well after the development of the cannon.
My point in all that is that cannons do not necessarily imply the existance of guns. Actually, I think cannons would be a better choice than mages as far as weaponry goes. There are lots of mages, and boats stand up very poorly against fire. Plus a cannon can only fire from its side, whereas a mage is free to move all about the ship. I think a cannon is far less unbalancing to intership combat then a crew armed to the teeth with fire pillar spells.
There's nothing 25 skill points of fire magic and a fire pillar spell can't fix.
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Eastheretic
Human
15 posts
Jun 18, 2004
10:25 PM
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Re: Sailing anyone?
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hmmm i think being able to replace a sailor with a mage and yet still have cannons/catapults would be better. In this way mages would be optional or a trade for better defense but longer sailing days.
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